Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Abundant Energy. I'm Todd Thomas and today we're exploring how innovation can power the AI revolution while protecting our planet. You're watching Now Media tv.
Welcome to Abundant Energy. I'm Todd Thomas. As artificial intelligence drives unprecedented economic growth and technical advancement, it's also accelerating global energy demand at an historic scale.
But energy is not the entire story. The future will depend on how effectively we design communities, buildings, infrastructure and systems that can withstand climate pressures while supporting long term prosperity. Today's guest is Alaina Spencer, co founder and managing partner of Alma Environmental Partners. Elena is a nationally recognized leader in ESG sustainability strategy, climate resilience and corporate transformation. For more than 17 years, she has worked in the intersection of environmental performance, economic value creation and social impact, helping organizations create measurable outcomes that support both business success and community well being. Elena, welcome to Abundant Energy.
[00:01:11] Speaker B: Thanks for having me, Todd. I'm really excited.
[00:01:15] Speaker A: As we begin, I encourage viewers to think about this question.
Can we truly build an abundant energy future if our communities, infrastructure and organizations are not resilient enough to sustain it?
In this first segment, we're exploring why climate resilience has become one of the most important conversations in business, infrastructure and sustainability.
So Elena, when you look at the challenges facing communities today, where do you see the greatest climate resilience gaps?
[00:01:47] Speaker B: In terms of climate resilience, especially when we talk about the future of AI, we really need to look at not only the building that's being built, but the communities around it. So in able to create a sustainable building, whether it's a data center or an office building, we really need to look at how does it connect to not only the community, but the infrastructure in that area. Because buildings are nodes within the infrastructure, greater plan and communities are within them. So how do we impact them in a way that is beneficial to them? So in terms of climate, if there is a region that has different types of disparities and or extremes, whether it's climate or a food desert, it is really that building's responsibility to help impact the community, to help out where they have their issues, because really it's part of part of the community.
So what we're seeing on several projects is a community outreach at the very beginning of a project, often in the letter of intent phase, where we're scanning that community to understand what are the climate resilience issues in that area. Is it drought? Is it, as I mentioned, food scarcity? And how can we help in terms of connecting that building to a greater community so that we leave it better than when we found it before. So that's what we're doing at a high level and then we really zoom in on what's truly needed. Oftentimes we see workforce development as an issue or areas that just don't have jobs or employment opportunities.
And while data centers and the AI type of boom, they don't offer a lot of jobs, there's not a lot of people that are employed within those facilities.
There are other areas or opportunities to create jobs and even workforce development during the design and the construction of that particular building. So there are so many aspects and it's quite regional, so each area is different and a one size fits all doesn't work. You really have to tailor it to that community, their needs and their climate resilience issues and make sure that you follow through on what you say you're going to do.
[00:03:59] Speaker A: That's always so important. The accountability stage why is resilience becoming a strategic business priority rather than simply an environmental concern?
[00:04:11] Speaker B: I often view sustainability and resilience in climate as a value or a business proposition. If we don't move forward with enabling or improving certain areas, we will see financial issues moving forward.
Whether it's higher insurance issues, with securing loans and or a building that will not withstand that type of extreme weather in an area, it actually becomes a financial business case. So how do you bring value to an area through a building and look at it as a business case rather than how am I sustainably building this or what is the climate resilience here? If you really look at it through that lens and include quality as a feature as well, you'll see buildings that do withstand time, improve the community and oftentimes can become more of a beacon for other areas to say, look what they've done over there. That's what we would like in this area.
So it can become more of a footprint or a focal point so that you can replicate it in other areas. But they're still tailoring for region because every, every kind of climate is a little different everywhere.
[00:05:26] Speaker A: I love that approach. We say a lot on this show and, and it would Chuck.
If it isn't financially sustainable, it literally isn't sustainable. So that's. I, I love your approach.
[00:05:38] Speaker B: So how does sustainability just really quickly. So I actually tried to change the vernacular in terms of sustainability. So instead of saying it's sustainable design, sustainable construction, sustainable operations, it's just that design, construction and operations, sustainability should be a layer that's just within every single project, every building, every community, because everyone deserves it. But it shouldn't be A side note on anything.
[00:06:06] Speaker A: I agree. And we also talk a lot on this show about the correlation between efficiency and sustainability and efficiency done well, reduce costs, reduce waste, it, it drives a business case.
And so we certainly think those things are tied together. So yes, to your point, being more efficient, reducing waste, improving the performance of that building in whatever the climate may be, yes, those happen to be sustainable elements as well and they drive an environmental positive outcome, but they also drive financially, financially positive outcomes, which again, done well. I think there's a natural correlation between efficiency, sustainability that to your point, drives the business case.
[00:06:53] Speaker B: Agreed.
[00:06:56] Speaker A: So how do you think we can do a better job of really looking at sustainability and resilience work and combining those to drive long term value?
[00:07:06] Speaker B: It's always early integration and as I was saying, changing the vernacular, it's not bringing in sustainability at a certain phase of a project, what whether it's for new construction or an existing type of building, it's making sure sustainability is on the agenda from the front all the way through the end. So I've always said it's a thread that keeps everything together because it does touch everything on a project.
And I think that if you start as early as possible, it also has a good financial impact because you'll hear oftentimes let's hold off on that because we'll, we'll pay sustainability a little bit later. If you start at the beginning and start to do your analysis and align responsibilities, scopes, cost, budget, you start to see that sustainability actually didn't cost more. It, it potentially could have cost less and you started integrating it into every design and construction aspect so that it's not looked at, as I always call it, the sidecar of a motorcycle. It's, it's kind of attached to a project, but it's on the side there.
If it's not looked at in that way, it actually just becomes that thread. And then as we were saying, it's the business case that can drive so much cost value as an operational entity.
[00:08:28] Speaker A: I think that's very true. And in a lot of cases in the past, people haven't looked at sustainability in that way and haven't incorporated it from the beginning.
And people's kind of built up this expectation that to be sustainable is going to cost them more money.
[00:08:47] Speaker B: Right.
[00:08:47] Speaker A: And so it's, I always enjoy the conversations when you, when you go in and you're speaking with a construction company or the end client or whoever's building is building and you're talking to them about these issues and, and they kind of bring up the question, well, okay, right, we want to do the right thing, but how much more is it going to cost us?
And we move into the conversation, well, if we do this correctly, if we do this efficiently, should actually reduce your cost. It should be a financial positive. So, yes, you get to do the thing that feels good, right. You get to do the environmentally friendly thing. But if we do it right, it should also improve your finances.
[00:09:20] Speaker B: Right. And really, when you think about the design and construction of a building, anything you add on is going to cost more money.
So if, if you leave sustainability to be an add on, it will cost more money. Just like if you add some gross square footage, it's going to cost more money. So if it's at the beginning with intentional design, then it just becomes that, that wonderful thread that keeps it all together.
[00:09:46] Speaker A: Absolutely.
What is the thing that big companies, organizations still misunderstand about climate risk?
[00:09:55] Speaker B: I would say one of the things I've seen as a trend is oftentimes there are these larger corporate goals that are publicly stated.
And when you work on a particular project, it doesn't have to be the design and construction of a building, but it could be you're rolling out a new program within your organization that disconnect between the publicly stated goal and what does it mean for that really small project or an additional building within your portfolio.
And that disconnect is where our firm almost often comes in to help them understand on that roadmap to either decarbonization, climate resiliency. What do we have to do in this year for this project in order to keep tracking in that trajectory towards the ultimate goal? And it's not a fault within any organization.
It's just there's so many moving pieces all the time and everyone's going at a lightning pace with so much on their plate, but taking a breath to figure out how do we actually meet that overall goal for this one thing? So that small incremental changes can meet up to the big goal is the thing we often see.
[00:11:09] Speaker A: Well, it becomes clear that resilience isn't simply about surviving disruption. It's about designing systems that can adapt, thrive, and continue creating value in a changing world. We'll take a short break. When we return, we'll discuss ESG and why sustainability is increasingly becoming a driver of business performance.
We'll be right back with more solutions shaping the future of energy, infrastructure and intelligent systems. Stay tuned.
And we're back. I'm Todd Thomas and this is abundant energy on now MiniTV. Let's dive deeper.
Welcome back to Abundant Energy. I'm Todd Thomas. If you're enjoying this conversation and you'd like to learn more about AI, energy and sustainability, my newest book, Starving for Innovation, will be available this fall and we really dive into the details around AI and the huge demand and energy needs that it is driving.
And the exact conversation that Elena and I are having today.
How can you meet that energy demand but do it in a cost effective way? Driving efficiencies that really builds sustainability and environmentally friendly impacts into your project. So it's not an afterthought, it's built in and really drives the business case behind sustainability. So if you're interested in learning more, visit starvingfourinnovation.com and pre order yours today.
Elena. As organizations face growing pressure from investors, customers and regulators, sustainability is no longer a side initiative. It's becoming central to long term success.
For many organizations, ESG has evolved from a reporting framework into a strategic business discipline that influences performance, investment decisions, risk management and growth.
How has this conversation around ESG changed?
And I was going to say over the last decade, but really in the last couple of years, how have you seen this change?
[00:13:14] Speaker B: Honestly, I always feel there's chatter about ESG and we often as sustainability professionals, we have to be very nimble and resilient human beings. Because when I started it was called corporate social responsibility and then it moved into more sustainability and, and now we're using more terms. Esg, climate resilience, they're better suited to really capture what we do. But I think we're constantly evolving and making sure people understand what we do. But this next phase truly is what is the quality and value of sustainability.
And when I'm talking with clients and oftentimes internally with people that are not within the sustainability realm, I try not to use words such as carbon emissions or climate resiliency. And I try to use words such as if we want to de risk this asset and save money over the long term, these are the things we have to do. You always have to meet people where they are.
But you're right, over the last few years it's accelerated in quite a change.
But in many ways, thinking positively about it, it's kind of a good change for us to now accelerate. The talk about the financial component is really smart and it's really great for us for our own resiliency in these roles. And I often see sustainability situated within a C suite structure, which is great. It just shows how important that role truly is.
But having that connection to the CFO Head of talent, head of sales, safety, other types of chiefs within those organizations really helps to paint a broader picture about the holistic approach to it and how a company truly operates. They're not supposed to be siloed departments, especially sustainability, they're supposed to permeate all throughout.
And that's kind of what I'm seeing a shift now of is some CSOs are that roles being eliminated. You're seeing that person become more of a, either a financial or a legal oversight plus sustainability and making sure that they're more integrated within the organization.
And then we're also seeing more of a shift of smaller in house teams, but having external components to be an extension of their team without that internal overhead. And I think that's also the financial piece that really stays with me. Everyone's thinking about it financially, which is really smart, especially for the longevity of that profession.
[00:15:51] Speaker A: So why do some organizations still struggle to connect sustainability with business performance?
[00:15:59] Speaker B: Yeah, there's probably a million zillion reasons, but I really think it's because they haven't found that interlocking word or the, the business case or mission that really brings those things together. And if departments are acting in silos or outside of the realm of sustainability, they just have to work on it a little bit more. It, it really takes a little bit of magic and a lot of understanding and a ton of work. I think as sustainability professionals, we're part therapists, part educators, then these technical leaders as well.
We need to listen, engage and pivot constantly.
So I think that organizations that currently struggle, they will get there. It's just going to take a lot of hard work.
[00:16:50] Speaker A: Can the right approach to sustainability be a sustainable competitive advantage?
[00:16:58] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely, without a doubt. I, I think that it's still a different market differentiator for many companies, which is wild because sustainability is so prevalent.
But oftentimes when we help clients with project interviews to win a new building, when we bring in that piece about sustainability and how we're able to bring value to a project, it's often viewed as quite a differentiator, even though you talk about sustainability all the time.
So I think that it's a differentiator, but it also enables a lot of creativity and innovation.
For instance, our partnership with Woodchuck AI and helping with recycling a wood material stream that we were in an area for a project where they can't, they were just going to landfill it all and Woodchuck came in to say we'll not only recycle it, we'll turn it into Biochar so it can be a mix in with concrete.
All I'm seeing is money being saved across multiple different components.
And what an awesome story. The innovation that we're going to be able to show or provide in a business case.
So I think the financial piece and sustainability is really where we're going to see a lot of change and again adds to the longevity of that role.
[00:18:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I love the biochar project.
One of the biggest costs, anytime you're hauling waste is the actual transportation cost. Right. And so a remote project like the one you're describing, if you can eliminate that transportation entirely by processing what was formerly waste and turning it into a value add material and using it right on site, what a huge efficiency gain. What a great financial gain for all parties. It's fantastic.
[00:18:51] Speaker B: Agreed. And we're reducing our landfill costs while adding another vendor, Woodchuck AI and we're still going to see some savings, which.
It blows your mind.
[00:19:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I love it.
So as, as companies are looking at new initiatives, what metrics do you suggest that they focus on and how do they measure those?
[00:19:14] Speaker B: I think in terms of new metrics, what I like to tell clients and people is look within about what is materially important for your business and it could be things that are driven by investors, driven by regulation, driven by your employees. But start to sum up what those things are. Equity, sustainability, energy, carbon.
From there, figure out is there a framework that's existing? Science based Targets is a really great one. You even the lead framework is really great.
And figure out how to put in those materially important issues within that framework and then start to look at complying with that framework.
What do you have to do and by what date and then test out the data, collect all of your data. So let's just say it is science based Targets initiative. Collect all of your scope 1, 2 and 3 carbon emissions data, figure out where you are right now and then realize for carbon neutrality, what will that mean by the deadline and can you do it? And you have to look at the cost impact as well. Will there be an impact to any budget for different teams or on projects and then go with it. What I really love is when a client says, I don't know if I really want to follow a framework, but I know this is important and this is important.
And then we create a roadmap for those things that are so materially important to them and it's their own and they're so proud and then everyone feels a part of it.
So I think you have to look Inward first in order to start really creating metrics and a timeline.
[00:20:52] Speaker A: We started by talking about data centers and the huge increase in energy demand that they're creating. So when you're thinking specifically about data centers and data center projects and how we power data center projects, are there specific metrics that you seem, that you see over and over that are common across projects?
[00:21:11] Speaker B: Yes.
So in the construction phase, we obviously see carbon, embodied carbon reductions. So that's the extraction, manufacturing and transportation of materials and then the construction itself, emissions for a project site.
So we see a lot of goals for embodied carbon emissions reduction. And a big, big part of that is your concrete and steel or your structural materials for a project. So we work heavily with procurement and with structural engineering to understand how do we reduce the embodied carbon for this building.
And then in terms of operational carbon or energy during the operations of a building, this is where so much energy is being used. But you'll see a lot of hyperscalers having energy plans for their whole organization. Whether it's carbon neutrality and or using all electric by a certain date, they're implementing a lot of innovation within their, their projects. So whether it's power purchasing agreements through utilities, micro turbines, we haven't really seen small molecular reactors, but I think are going to be on the horizon soon and potentially some nuclear power and then other renewables, wind PV that can be integrated on site, we're seeing a ton of innovation because of truly the grid demand right now can't actually meet what is in the demand right now for construction on AI.
So companies are having to come up with the innovation so, so that they can reduce the demand on the grid.
[00:22:50] Speaker A: So I've heard a stat a couple times that over the total carbon life cycle of a project, 40% of that comes from the embodied carbon in the building itself and 60% is from the production or the running of that facility.
Does that sound roughly correct in your experience?
[00:23:09] Speaker B: I think that's fairly correct right now.
However, what we'll see as a trajectory is because so much is being put on the operations and energy efficiency, I think we're going to see embodied carbon surpass operational carbon because because of all of those efficiencies, you don't see a project nowadays without LED lighting, without efficient H vac heating, cooling, ventilation. It's, it's now very standard, but the materials aspect of it is a little bit more emerging. And right now we do focus primarily on structural materials. But it's almost the Wild west when you talk about mechanical equipment. That percentage of the embodied carbon Pie is, is large, but we don't really know yet until we start testing it. So I think there's going to be a lot more uncovered when we start to look at embodied carbon and then embody carbon actually surpassing operational carbon.
[00:24:07] Speaker A: Well, that's really interesting. That's good news and bad news, I guess.
[00:24:11] Speaker B: More problems to solve.
[00:24:15] Speaker A: The organizations leading tomorrow's economy are increasingly those that understand sustainability not as a cost, but as a catalyst for innovation, resilience and long term value creation. We'll be right back. As we explore how the built environment must evolve to support both economic growth and and environmental responsibility. We'll be right back.
We'll be right back with more solutions shaping the future of energy, infrastructure and intelligent systems. Stay tuned.
And we're back. I'm Todd Thomas and this is Abundant Energy on NOW Media tv. Let's dive deeper.
Welcome back to Abundant Energy. I'm continuing my conversation with Alaina Spencer and now I want to focus on the built environment. We touched on it at the end of last segment.
As AI infrastructure expands, data centers scale and energy demand grows, the decisions we make about buildings, transportation systems, water resources and urban development will shape the future for generations.
The future of abundance requires more than energy production. It requires infrastructure that is efficient, resilient and designed for long term sustainability.
Elena, what role does the built environment play in creating a sustainable future?
[00:25:33] Speaker B: It's a major component, but it's a partnership component. So within, if you will, a smart city infrastructure and buildings within those communities, they all have to work together.
And quite frankly, when you see issues with infrastructure and, or with a building, a best case scenario is they rely on each other. So whether it's climate resilience and the building is now a shelter for something that's happening in the area, or vice versa, the building's lost power and they need the infrastructure to help them out. So it truly becomes an absolute partnership and the community has to benefit from all of it. So keeping that in mind is really the trifecta for the future of so smart cities and how infrastructure relates to buildings and communities.
[00:26:24] Speaker A: So how should cities and communities and organizations prepare for increasing energy demand driven by AI and digital infrastructure?
[00:26:33] Speaker B: It definitely has to be public and private partnerships coming together through research and implementation in order to understand for this region what is the issue and how can we combat it.
But resilience is a scale over time. So in the next five years it could have these impacts, the next 50 years, these impacts, and these next 100 years, these impacts. So things have to be designed flexibly so when we look at the future, we're going to have more cooling degree days than heating degree days because everything's getting warmer. But right now we have a good mix of heating and cooling degree days. How can we create flexibility within these buildings, communities and infrastructure so that when in the future we need more cooling, it can just be right sized out or something that can be plugged right in without having to redesign an entire building or an entire bridge or an entire community.
So flexibility is really in mind and I do think that's what resiliency truly is, is that nimbleness and being able to just adapt to not only the future, but what is the community in need of?
[00:27:45] Speaker A: So what innovations are you most excited about in sustainable development and resilient design?
[00:27:52] Speaker B: I, I love figuring out what hasn't been done before and how can we apply it to this particular project.
So if it's a newer material or a different type of mix in for concrete that hasn't been used before. So there's some standards that are used across the board like fly ash and slag, but we're starting to look at pumice and different types of carbon neutral mix ins that over time even increase the carbon reduction for a project.
So I love to look at those and other types of substitutions for materials like hemp insulation instead of regular insulation. And how can we start to implement those as pilots into projects but then have it become a standard because it is a type of bio based material that could be cheaper in the long term if there's higher demand.
I also love when a project starts sustainability at the very beginning because then you start to see it's not just sustainability, it's oh, here's the design of our building and because of this we're using a lot of heat recovery and energy recovery. And you're like that's a sustainability. But they're not calling it that, which is the goal on every single project.
So there's it's process. I'm very excited about where people are bringing together the right teams at the very beginning and then innovative types of measures, even materials are, they're just really exciting. And especially as sustainability professionals, we can't be afraid of change. So we have to help usher in that next phase of let's get comfortable with being uncomfortable and figure out how we can create that more sustainable future.
[00:29:34] Speaker A: Do you have any tips or suggestions that can help developers and policymakers work together more efficiently?
[00:29:43] Speaker B: I mean there are a lot of groups that connect those types of professions. So I'm in The Chicago area, the Illinois Green Building alliance is very good.
World Business Chicago, the Midwest Sustainability Network. Bringing together these public and private types of partnerships and making sure that they have a natural environment to discuss what are the issues that we're experiencing and how can we resolve them together and figuring out what resources might be a gap on the private side or even on the public side and filling that in.
So I think it's more of seeking out the organizations that are already doing these connections and figuring out how you can get involved with your expertise to really help them out. And it takes a lot of time, but I think through dedication and just people staying consistent and fighting this issue or that, that challenge, you'll start to see more changes. And they're already happening right now, but we have to be consistent in, we're
[00:30:50] Speaker A: starting to see more flexibility in the energy production and more hybrid solutions. So instead of a single dedicated energy source, we're using multiple different energy sources on a, on a single facility.
Are there certain trends that you're seeing right now that are, that are really driving efficiencies and innovation that you're excited about?
[00:31:11] Speaker B: And in terms of energy, especially in a new construction type project, your starting point truly comes from how do you reduce the amount of energy that the envelope will gain or lose and then the systems can reduce and then from there this is where you start to see your energy mix. You should have a smaller delta here for energy efficiency which can be covered by on site or off site renewables and alternative energies, like I mentioned, nuclear. But you really have to start looking at reducing your energy at first and then bringing in that other energy mix. I think PV has been been coming a really long way on site and we're finding that on projects it's not just for the rooftop. It can be canopies over parking, it can be in other areas on the project site where it won't take up valuable real estate, but could be shade for parking or shade for bike parking. And wind is something I haven't seen on particular projects, but I see offshore wind that helps to integrate within grids or certain projects. So I think that's another area that can be further explored. And then where's the future going with these, all these alternative energies, nuclear, etc. I think there's going to be a lot of advancements because we're going to have to start getting way more innovative because our grid can only hold so much.
[00:32:41] Speaker A: So liquid natural gas is kind of having a moment right now. Right.
And I think we're seeing more Hybrid solutions where liquid natural gas is being paired with other renewables or with renewables.
Do you think this is a trend that we'll see more of? Is this a growing trend and what are the advantages or disadvantages of that coupling?
[00:33:03] Speaker B: I have seen it on some projects where people have said, I feel that the liquid natural gas or the natural gas will burn cleaner than a diesel or a propane, which is accurate. That's completely, totally accurate.
I wonder if they are having a moment though, while we figure out what is a greater energy solution and how we can keep continuing to clean the grids.
I also think that we'll just find other types of couplings that become more prevalent. And one thing I did want to mention is renewables with battery storage is something we're also seeing as a big part of the energy plan for projects.
So generating your power, then storing it in batteries, using it when you need it, and or giving it back to the grid, often times giving it or you can actually sell it back.
So there, there is a business case right there in terms of this energy mix on projects.
[00:34:06] Speaker A: That's really interesting.
Looking at nuclear and I said you haven't seen a lot of the small nuclear reactors yet or the mini reactors.
I do think those are coming. But are those also a stopgap on the way to fusion?
[00:34:23] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great question.
I don't know if it's a stopgap to fusion. What I do think is we'll see probably fusion in certain regions. Nuclear and others I know right now, especially the Illinois grid is powered by a small percentage of nuclear and I would imagine that would also increase over time.
But I wish I could see into the future, but there's so many things that could truly happen. And I think that what we see right now will be wildly different in the next five years. I think it will be that short of a time frame.
[00:35:01] Speaker A: Yeah, that's real interesting. Yeah, I agree. I think five years from now is going to be.
Can't wait to see. So we're certainly in an exciting time and in an exciting area.
Infrastructure is where vision becomes reality. And the choices we make today will determine whether future growth becomes sustainable abundance or. Or unsustainable strain.
We'll take one final break and when we return, we'll discuss leadership, impact and what it takes to create lasting change.
We'll be right back with more solutions shaping the future of energy, infrastructure and intelligent systems. Stay tuned.
And we're back. I'm Todd Thomas and this is Abundant Energy on Naomi Yetiti. Let's dive deeper.
As we close today's conversation with Alaina Spencer, I want to focus on leadership.
Transition toward a more resilient and sustainable future will not happen because of technology alone. It will require courageous leaders willing to challenge conventional thinking and build new systems for the generations that follow.
Elena, what inspired your commitment to sustainability, resilience and social impact?
[00:36:18] Speaker B: At the beginning of my career, I was provided with an opportunity to jump into sustainability. So my degree was in business management consulting. And a company I worked at said, would you like to do corporate social responsibility for us? And I thought, yeah, I'll figure it out, why not? What a great opportunity.
And I didn't even realize I was passionate about sustainability until I started it. And I never let go. I made sure that that was my career career moving forward. And I really fell in love with the consulting side because working with a variety of clients on a variety of projects helps you accelerate all you learn. But also you meet so many wonderful people that really expand your network and your horizons and your knowledge.
So I, I really got lucky and I've. I've never looked back. It's been an exciting ride.
All right.
[00:37:13] Speaker A: Are we good?
[00:37:16] Speaker B: It's one in the same. If you're looking to reduce energy or create clean energy to run your facility or your portfolio of buildings, what we're looking at is how much money can you save? It's not really just reducing energy, it's actually reducing your bills or reducing the cost of energy to supply to those facilities.
And that's really how it's generally aligned. While I love to say that we reduce this many kilowatt hours or this many KBTUs, that conversation can only go too far. So you want to equate that to what is the cost savings for these reductions but also the measures that you had to implement to reduce energy, what was that cost and what is the payback time period?
And you really start with your lower hanging fruit. So your low no cost solutions in order to save energy, then things that are more mid tier or more costly, and then your longer term capital improvement plans within the capital improvement plans. You can start to create budgets in your capex measures or even OPEX measures so that over time you can put that into what would be allocated to funds and then see your energy reduction and cost savings from there as well. But those low no cost solutions can start to be implemented immediately. And you should start to see these reductions in a matter of, you know, six months to a year.
And you really didn't have to do too much. But knowing that longer term strategy is truly the key and how it matches up with your financials.
[00:38:49] Speaker A: So what are the leadership qualities that will be most important as we navigate these energy challenges?
[00:38:55] Speaker B: I think being brave is, is really important and taking the leap of faith to either test certain things out or ask the questions that others might not because they're so used to doing certain things a certain way, making sure that you're always teaching as well. You don't want to be the last person to bring these things up or push it forward. So having team members that you can share that wealth of knowledge with is critical.
But even people on the client side, if, if you're helping to educate them, wherever they go, they can bring that information.
So I do say, yeah, bravery, but also making it inclusive is really paramount to the longevity of those tasks and operations.
[00:39:45] Speaker A: So it also seems that in the, in the AI world in particular, building a data center, you have the end client that is probably some large tech company and then you have the construction company that's actually building the building for them and all sorts of different subs running around. How different is the conversation you have with the end client versus the conversation you have with the construction company?
[00:40:10] Speaker B: I try to make them as similar as possible, but you're just using different terminology.
When we're connected to the client, they have a technical backbone. They understand, you know, if you use the words carbon emissions, what that truly means.
When I'm talking to a general contractor or the subs or trade partners on those projects, I'm trying to relate it to what they're doing. So if you're purchasing this type of steel, why don't we look for steel that's electric arc furnace created and has recycled content within it? And I'm going to help you find those vendors. I'm going to enable this process so you don't have to do all the legwork.
But then let's just take that scenario and I tell the client. What I'm telling the client is we not only met the specs, but we exceeded them. And I don't really have to say too much more, they, they actually understand their, their specifications for the project.
So it's really just meeting people where they are and trying to apply it to. If I was in their shoes, how would I understand this and how would I apply it?
And the best part of any project is when people say, oh, I did that, I, I was a part of that. Or when they go by a building and they're like, that was the my building, I did that. And I helped select that steel. That's what you want to hear because then those individuals will start to apply it to their other projects and other companies that they work at.
[00:41:34] Speaker A: Are you finding that a lot of your clients have specifications either already clarified or at least in mind, or is a lot of your work still helping clients define and understand those specifications?
[00:41:46] Speaker B: I would say across the board, majority have either specs or their specs are in mind.
And we have started at Alma, helping clients create a standardized specification for Division 1 sustainability requirements specifically, but also helping them understand how does that division correlate to the other divisions.
Precast, concrete, electrical. So everyone can see it's a circular reference. But most of our clients absolutely do have specifications. They're very well defined and they do update them, you know, over the course of time. Sometimes it's over a few years, sometimes it's a little bit more or they'll have an addendum to a certain section. So we do find that those that contractual obligation document is pretty apparent on most projects, if not all excellent.
[00:42:39] Speaker A: So when you think about the legacy that you hope to leave, what do you want future generations to inherit?
[00:42:46] Speaker B: I always say that I'm helping with everyone else's children. I want them to have just a better future.
I personally do not have children my choice, but I really love when I see everyone else's children and I'm like, I. I'm actually helping create a better world for you.
And whenever anyone is interested in sustainability, I always talk to them about it and figure out, can I get them a job in sustainability? Do I know anybody?
And I'm always trying to correct false narratives about especially data centers. I've heard a lot where I'm like, actually, here's the fact.
So I love that I'm able to provide that expertise and, and I do feel that the work that I do and the work that we do at Alma is really, actually helping and impacting powerfully for the future.
[00:43:38] Speaker A: Fantastic.
If people want to reach you, to work with you, follow your work or find out more about alma. How do they reach you?
[00:43:48] Speaker B: So Elena runs with Dana. You can reach out to me at elena, alma, epa.com or our main mailbox. So my co founder and I, Madeline Dunaway, can be reached at sustainability alma-ep.com and my phone number is 312-813-1556. We would love to help anyone on their sustainability journey, even if it's a small project. We believe that sustainability should be affordable and everyone should have access to it.
[00:44:21] Speaker A: But do you have you mentioned earlier, you love it when someone walks by a building that they were part of and they get excited about that.
[00:44:27] Speaker B: Right.
[00:44:27] Speaker A: Do you have a particular story that you love, that you're proud of that you can kind of leave the audience with today?
[00:44:33] Speaker B: I worked on a project in Boston. It was their convention center and we had to do an an entire energy overhaul, a jumpstart program, in order for it to be meet a lead prerequisite. It took years and once we earned that certification, I think owner and project team, we hugged. It was so wonderful we had accomplished such a massive thing and they started to save money really soon after the project was done. And it just, that just wraps up what you do every day. Staying at it, being brave and then seeing the client with a happy outcome.
[00:45:13] Speaker A: That's fantastic. I love that story.
[00:45:16] Speaker B: Thanks.
[00:45:18] Speaker A: I haven't hugged many of my clients, but I will strive for that now.
Well, Elena, thanks so much for joining us and sharing your insights on climate resilience, ESG leadership, sustainable development, and the future of high performance organizations. At Abundant Energy, we believe the future requires both innovation and responsibility.
The AI era is creating extraordinary opportunities. But those opportunities will only be realized if we build the systems, infrastructure and leadership necessary to sustain them. Because Abundant Energy is not simply about generating more power. It's about creating a future where prosperity, resilience and environmental stewardship work together. I'm Todd Thomas. Thank you for watching Abundant Energy.
